Qmidgets Mailing List Digest v2n1084
Subject: Quarter Midget Racing Digest: V2 #1084
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Quarter Midget Racing Digest: Sunday, November 28 1999 Volume 02 : Number 1084
Contents:
Re: Yep those good old days
Re: Yep those good old days
Re: Quarter Midget Racing Digest: V2 #1082
Re: Yep those good old days
Re: Yep those good old days
Re: Quarter Midget Racing Digest: V2 #1082
re: rear axles
Re: Racing Setup issues
Claiming Hondas / pros-cons
Re: Yep those good old days
Re: Quarter Midget Racing Digest: V2 #1082
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 01:06:04 EST
From: HWeirjr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yep those good old days
you can go to the gt america web site @ gtamerica.com it has all the info
you need
they are great cars we just bought 2 & the people are great
the weir's
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 01:07:52 EST
From: HWeirjr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yep those good old days
correction on the web site address is gtamerican.com
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 01:30:43 EST
From: TElias8681@aol.com
Subject: Re: Quarter Midget Racing Digest: V2 #1082
At the 99 Western Grands a 7 year old Fiser bar car set fast time in Jr Honda
and in the main all the fast guys got spanked by and older car. Anyone who
pays more than $500 on a Honda is getting took plain and simple. I have not
seen ONE engine builder at the track telling anyone what engine gear to run
or how to set up the car ! People need to understand that the fast guys are
at the track one or two times every week changing gears, tires , shocks and
their drivers are running 100s if not 1000s of laps with all the other fast
guys thats what makes them fast! So get your Driver to your track and run
with the fast guys. They will help you if you ask and in return all they ask
is that you do the same when your Kid is the fast guy! The Elias family
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:32:44 -0800
From: Van Ripers
Subject: Re: Yep those good old days
I think we agree then Keith.
And you're right, you don't NEED a trailer or brand new cars to enjoy QMs.
But your experience will likely improve.
For example, my sense is the state of the art in car design has advanced
dramatically in the last 5 years.
For example, our Fiser is a 1994 or 1995 Fiser 74" Narrow Bar car. Messeraul
told me it was Cofer's AA car. It isn't offset much, had mechanical brakes
(I retrofitted hydralics), has torsion bars, has an Ackerman front axle,
clamp on rear hubs and funky little black shocks. It's a pretty little car
and only 4 or 5 years old.
If I get it set up just right, it is fast, real fast. After 2 races in 99,
Derek held fast time in Jr. Honda and during the Summer races in Tri-Valley
he won a couple and had a fast time. But the setup curve is spiked. If we
miss the setup by just a little, we're screwed. Fortunately, Derek is very
smooth and covers for the old man. But the speed won't be there.
The GTs are thoroughly modern cars. Way offset, hydro brakes, coil springs,
deep offset front spindles, stepped rear axle with splined hubs and Trimble
shocks (not a hint of leakage) and it is stiffer than a Lexus.
The GT is easier to work on and it has a nice big fat setup curve. They do
a great job covering up my incompetance. That makes sure Derek has a better
time and we all enjoy the day more.
Does a trailer make you faster. Probably. Penske has a saying about
preparation which I can't remember well enough to quote. Working out of the
back of a pickup and a 4x8 open trailer makes everything more difficult.
Parts in the dirt. Cars in the dirt. It's super hard to organize anything so
doing repairs and setup changes between heats is a paniced affair at best.
Can't find anything. You're in a hurry looking for a 10mm nut in the
gravel.... Never did find that little piece of .... Little sucker would have
been easy to find on white linoleum in a well lit environment!
And then there is the rain. I hate hauling our cars around in the rain. And
I'm tidy but certainly not anal like some people! And even it it isn't
raining in San Jose, it might be in Scotts Valley or even just foggy at the
summit on Highway 17. I've had to empty my parts boxes (Rubbermaid but I
have too many parts for them to seal well) and dry off everything inside.
And there is having to leave for the track before 7am so you can get a
decent spot. The 40' TPDs got there the night before. Can't do that with a
4x8 open trailer. And 2 day races are a pain since you have to wander
around trying to find someone to store your cars overnight. Thanks Tim
Clausen for always being willing to put us up! I can't imagine how people do
the Grands without a trailer.
So while an enclosed trailer won't make you faster in and of itself, I do
believe it makes you more effective as a crew chief and allow you to enjoy
the event a lot more.
At least I hope so! We pick up our new trailer (and the 2nd GT) this week
and then our 4x8 trailer is outta here! I'm gonna have cabinets and a tire
rack and a workbench and I will have a pit cart for each of our cars! I'm
so pumped!
Do you know that there are people who if they see me with 2 cars and a pit
cart they will literally turn around and go the other way? Derek's Sr. Honda
weighs 230 lbs empty. And because we can only have one pitcart (1 car in the
pickup, 1 car and the pitcart on the trailer), I have to swap cars
constantly to change tires (I use the same tires on both cars that way I
only have 1 set of hards, mediums and softs to haul around) and people just
get tired of picking up Derek's lead sled!
And so ends "War and Peace!" ;-)
jvr
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Yep those good old days
> In a message dated 11/27/99 8:30:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> vrracing@pacbell.net writes:
>
> << Just to clarify one point, Keith. We have spent approximately $20,000
in
> the
> past 18 months but that does NOT represents annual reoccurring costs. We
run
> 3 classes with 2 drivers. So that's 2 GT Americans, 1 Fiser, tires, one
16'
> enclosed trailer, 3 pit carts, 2 custom fire suits, tires, radius rods, 2
> Honda 120s, 1 Honda 160, 3 Wagner exhausts, tires, wheels, brake pads,
brake
> rotors, wheel wrench, tools, air tank, custom paint jobs, helmets (cheap
>
> ones), nomex gloves, etc. Oh, and we've never bent an axle.
>
> We plan on replacing the Fiser with another GT after the first of the
year.
>
> If you figure 3 bent axles @ $100/each (I know people who have bent 2 in
one
> day in one class) per year and replacing your right sides ($100/set)
every
> 10 heat cycles (seems to be a common theory), average $30 entry fees per
> race then ignoring any other broken parts, gas, oil, post-tech rebuild
> costs), to run the just the Baylands races (15 total) and assuming you
pack
> your breakfast, lunch and dinner, you're looking at:
>
> Axles : $300
> Tires : $500 (assuming 10 heat cycles equals 3 race days and pretend
there
> are no tire compounds that triple your inventory)
> Entry Fees : $450
> TOTAL : $1250/Honda-powered Car
>
> I'd double it to represent reality. Less than $20K to be sure. And
probably
> not out of line with the annual costs of a traveling
premier/elite/whatever
> soccer program.
>
> Oh and memory serves, my friends who run 360 and 410 sprint cars have
told
> me a 360 engine is around $20K and a 410 around $40K. Everything is so
> expensive in San Jose! ;-)
>
> I'd be curious to hear any theories on why B and A motors are going for
> "bargain basement" prices? Pre-ATV jitters?
>
> jvr
> >>
> Jim,
> this is exactly my point, do we really need brand new cars, change tires
> every three race days, enclosed trailers, 3 pit carts, etc to remain
> competative. Im not saying" not to spend money on your kids, if you have
it
> "but should a big pocket book be a requirement to be competative in a
> stock/honda class. please don't take what im saying personally. I do
> understand the costs of racing, im just putting out the thought "do we
really
> need to be spending this much money to remain competative."
> As far as $20k for a 360, that is what a built "shaver" or "Gearte"
costs.
> $40K for a 410 is about what a WoO 410 would run, not your typical Sat.
night
> local race track motor.San Jose has always been a MONEY track.
>
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:54:10 -0800
From: Van Ripers
Subject: Re: Yep those good old days
From the GT American website, the fronts cost $95 and the rear is $140.
The GT's (and I believe modern Fiser's) rear axles are stepped and splined
on both ends, lke a sprint car. So there is a fair amount of machine work
there. I could see $38 for an axle for our old Fiser. It is just a straight
piece of 1.25" aluminium with a couple of grooves cut it in for the c-clips.
Do you pay $38 for a front axle too? They seem to get bent far more often
than rears. And there is a lot more welding and bending to make them.
And again, we've never bent an axle, front or rear. But people do seem to
bend them so for my annual budget example it seemed reasonable to assume 3
fronts a year.
For some pictures of GT Americans you can go to their web site at
www.gtamerican.com and you can check out my son Derek's website at
http://home.pacbell.net/vrracing. Lots of pictures there. Be sure to check
out the Click for More at the bottom of the Photos page.
As you probably saw, there were 3 GTs at the Columbus Indoor, 2 in Light B
and 1 in Light A. They took first (Darrin Bolten) and second (Bryan
Clausen) in Light B and took first (Bryan Clausen) in Light A. Clearly,
Darrin and Bryan are excellent drivers, but if you've met Jay and Tim you'd
know the cars compensated for the Dads! ;-) Ha! Only kidding guys! They
could have won on skateboards with a pari of Estes C6-3s duct-taped to the
underside of the boards!
Have a good one Tony,
jvr
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Akers
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: Yep those good old days
> jvr
> What kind of axles do you use? We pay $38 a piece. If you are paying 100
> bucks a shot I would suggest you buy a titanium axle. Yes you pay 500 to
> 600 each but they last a lifetime, and possibly keep you in the race. And
> when you sell a car you replace it with a lesser expensive one and put the
> titanium in the new car. And for Bargain Basement prices. Who has them.
My
> buddy just bought a used HawkinsAA $5500.00. Mods here in our area are
> selling for $2500 -$3000 used. B's are getting $3500-$5500 used. Maybe I
> should start buying and selling motors. No I guess I better not. If you
> are running 3 cars for 20K I think you doing a heck of a job. Tell me
some
> more about GT American cars. Who makes them and can you send a picture.
>
> Tony Akers
> Akers Racing
> HQMA REG2
>
> Just to clarify one point, Keith. We have spent approximately $20K in the
> past 18 months but that does NOT represents annual reoccuring costs. We
run
> 3 classes with 2 drivers. So that's 2 GT Americans, 1 Fiser, tires, one
16'
> enclosed trailer, 3 pit carts, 2 custom fire suits, tires, radius rods, 2
> Honda 120s, 1 Honda 160, 3 Wagner exhausts, tires, wheels, brake pads,
brake
> rotors, wheel wrench, tools, air tank, custom paint jobs, helmets (cheap
> ones), nomex gloves, etc. Oh, and we've never bent an axle.
>
> We plan on replacing the Fiser with another GT after the first of the
year.
>
> If you figure 3 bent axles @ $100/each (I know people who have bent 2 in
one
> day in one class) per year and replacing your right sides ($100/set) every
> 10 heat cycles (seems to be a common theory), average $30 entry fees per
> race then ignoring any other broken parts, gas, oil, post-tech rebuild
> costs), to run the just the Baylands races (15 total) and assuming you
pack
> your breakfast, lunch and dinner, you're looking at:
>
> Axles : $300
> Tires : $500 (assuming 10 heat cycles equals 3 race days and pretend there
> are no tire compounds that triple your inventory)
> Entry Fees : $450
> TOTAL : $1250/Honda-powered Car
>
> I'd double it to represent reality. Less than $20K to be sure. And
probably
> not out of line with the annual costs of a traveling
premier/elite/whatever
> soccer program.
>
> Oh and memory serves, my friends who run 360 and 410 sprint cars have told
> me a 360 engine is around $20K and a 410 around $40K. Everything is so
> expensive in San Jose! ;-)
>
> I'd be curious to hear any theories on why B and A motors are going for
> "bargain basement" prices? Pre-ATV jitters?
>
> jvr
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 7:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Yep those good old days
>
>
> > In a message dated 11/26/99 10:08:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > xxracing@jps.net writes:
> >
> > << There
> > have been a lot of good B's and A's sold for bargain basement prices.
> > It's the competition that's tough, not the costs.
> > >>
> > Jay,
> > I would like to know your idea of bargain basement prices. i will agree
> the
> > competition in region 10 is tough, but i watched someone run a $6000
(from
> > what I was told)AA motor at the turkey shootout (a fun race). if people
> are
> > spending $20k+ a year on QM, this is approaching what many people (on a
> local
> > level) spend on full size sprint cars. $6000 on a single cylinder flat
> head
> > is ridiculous. a good running 355 v-8 alcohol injected sprint car motor
> can
> > be built for around 10,000. remember that is for 8 cylinders not one. i
> would
> > also like to know how competitive these bargain basement B and AA motor
> would
> > really be?
> >
> > Keith
> > Handler for Kristen Strickland
> >
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>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 01:53:38 EST
From: TElias8681@aol.com
Subject: Re: Quarter Midget Racing Digest: V2 #1082
Dennis, With out getting to much into it all the engine guys in Honda are
doing are legal adjustments to the valve train and jetting. Some motors are
fast fight out of the box.
Others take some time to get figured out. It may take some time but you can
fine your motors (sweet zone) In Region 10 they don,t claim very many engines
Why buy someones stock Honda ?
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:10:48 -0500
From: Merriman
Subject: re: rear axles
Tony Akers,
I use a Kart 4130 hollow axle on my half. It is only a couple of pounds
more than a solid aluminum (the 4130 is hollow). They cost about $40
from any kart supply. They are darned near impossible to bend. BTW do
you have many motorcycle 1/2s running there?
I am planning on racing at all our region's tracks. Look forward to
meeting you.
Dick Merriman
RD2 (elect)
You are right on target with sprint costs. A friend of mine justifies
his $6000 QM motors by dividing the 48,000 in his super 410 buy 8. He
says it's the same.
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:32:08 EST
From: BeithB@aol.com
Subject: Re: Racing Setup issues
In a message dated 11/27/99 9:42:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
akers@intrepid.net writes:
<< Are we on the same planet? >>
"Gambler with fresh rebuilds on motor, pumps, steering, new bladder. Includes
$5k spares / tools, 24' tag trailer w/ sprint setup. Everything goes $20k.
email thgough@nvbell.net or (775) 857-2407. " This is copied and pasted from
http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi/mb31827
So see this is what planet I am from. Just thought I would share with you the
facts. I don't here these things from "FRIENDS" my brother in law races a 360
sprinter on a local level and is very competitive with his "low budget"
motor. I just think that "we" QMA need to put a limit on what we are throwing
out to the money makers in this sport, set some limits. We are going to race
no matter what, the memories and what our daughter is getting out of it will
keep us in, I just see it pricing some people out before they even start. So
lets race!!!!
Keith
Handler for Kristen Strickland
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:07:17 -0600
From: Don Roden
Subject: Claiming Hondas / pros-cons
dennis mccree wrote:
>
> At the current cost of a claim on a Honda engine (GX120) the handler getting claimed puts $100.00 in his pocket after all is said and done.(that is assuming he was running a box stock motor), and he buy's a new motor at the current going rate for a new Honda from a dealer who's not selling machined Honda's.
> These are just some of my thoughts, and i welcome any comments or criticism
> Dennis McCree 419-472-4044
I think $450 for a quick qualifier honda is one of the best bargins
around. We can get a box honda for $375 PLUS SHIPPING PLUS TAX.
If I pay myself $25 per hour to remove all the governer assembly and
saw off the mounts, and everything, I have exceeded the $450 claim and I
have just built an UNKNOWN runner. The engine builders cant even offer
a free trial run to see if you are satisfied before you plink down
$600. Claiming a top running engine for $450 eliminates all the doubt
that you might have about "luck of the draw" box stock engines.
Don Roden
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:19:45 -0600
From: Don Roden
Subject: Re: Yep those good old days
Van Ripers wrote:
>
> TOTAL : $1250/Honda-powered Car
Hey Hey Hey......... Jim, watch what you say here..... my wife sometimes
reads this list. I have her convinced that this is almost free.
Don Roden
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 01:27:09 -0800
From: "rki"
Subject: Re: Quarter Midget Racing Digest: V2 #1082
when we moved into the jr. and sr. honda classes i heard alot of people talk
about the hot motors blueprinted what ever and felt that if they do it i
better to keep up. thought about it i decided to learn to set up the car and
do alot of practice. well i still have those same old motors and my boys are
starting to win alot!!! so see you next year.
far as i am concerned practice is how to get fast. try changing the bars
,ride height, tires,gears, shocks rebuild them i just did mine amazing how
easy it was . on my sr. honda i am using old bent fast track super shocks.
set up and driver try it you'll get fast we did started racing the end of
may. i don't know it all but we are learning bring on those hot honda's
ha!!!
- -----Original Message-----
From: TElias8681@aol.com
To: qmidgets@quartermidgets.com
Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Quarter Midget Racing Digest: V2 #1082
>At the 99 Western Grands a 7 year old Fiser bar car set fast time in Jr
Honda
>and in the main all the fast guys got spanked by and older car. Anyone who
>pays more than $500 on a Honda is getting took plain and simple. I have not
>seen ONE engine builder at the track telling anyone what engine gear to run
>or how to set up the car ! People need to understand that the fast guys are
>at the track one or two times every week changing gears, tires , shocks and
>their drivers are running 100s if not 1000s of laps with all the other fast
>guys thats what makes them fast! So get your Driver to your track and run
>with the fast guys. They will help you if you ask and in return all they
ask
>is that you do the same when your Kid is the fast guy! The Elias family
>
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------------------------------
End of Quarter Midget Racing Digest: V2 #1084
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